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ReWrite Your Own Story

Ft. Amberly Rothfield

SNH Podcast S3 - Episode 9 Transcript

Melrose Michaels: Welcome back to the SeenAndNotHeard Podcast. The podcast that is your weekly dirty little secret, which is fine by me. As long as you keep it that way. I'm Melrose Michael's your host and this is SeenAndNotHeard Podcast Season 3 Episode 9. Today's guest is someone super cute to my heart. I came across her on Twitter and followed her after realizing she had written a bestselling book in the space, which is something that I too have always wanted to do myself as fate would have it last year in 2019, I met Amberly Rothfield in person at an Exotica New Jersey convention, and we became fast friends. I think when models do something new that expands our community and the opportunities that models have within it, it needs to be brought to the forefront. So today we are talking with Amberly Rothfield about how she rewrote her own story. Welcome, Amberly Rothfield.

Welcome Amberly to the SeenAndNotHeard Podcast! I am super excited to have you! We've been talking a little bit for a while now about you coming on and it's good to finally have you on the show.

Amberly Rothfield: Good things come to those who wait.

Melrose Michaels: Yes.

Melrose Michaels: Isn't that true, isn't that true? I guess so maybe we should start by having you kind of introduce yourself to the people listening who might not be as familiar with you as I am, or the models in the world are.

Amberly Rothfield: Sure, sure. So hi, I'm Amberly Rothfield, I've been in the adult industry for actually I found out it's more than 15 years cause I can't do math, but minimum 15 years at this point. And I started off as a creator doing mainly phone sex, audio and clips, web cam. And I accidentally morphed into doing more marketing consultated stuff, but I also write quite a few books. I, one of my wife, we were watching Alexander Hamilton and there's a line where they're like, why do you write, like you're running out of time. I felt called out. Cause I was literally working on a book at the time. Yeah. I'm sitting there typing, watching Google plus and I was like, fuck you, I can put it down for a minute. It's fine. But yeah. So I also write about,marketing as well as different fetishes in the industry. So yes. Hi, that was long-winded I'm sorry.

Melrose Michaels: Yeah, that's perfect. Cause I want, I want people to get a really good understanding for who you are, because I feel like you're very unique in our community. Not just for the fact that you started and like the phone sex, maybe not so more audio, not so visual and then kind of, you know, as time went on, evolve into these other spaces. And then obviously I do wanna focus for a little bit further in the podcast on your writing because I think that's super powerful and empowering and important for models to know that we can do things like that. So I guess let me start with the phone sex thing because I find that super interesting because it's a category and like a niche I've never kind of gotten into. So how did you end up doing that? What is the little backstory? Cause that always is so interesting to me.

Amberly Rothfield: I, I hate the clicheness of it. I was homeless and couch surfing my senior year of high school because my family life was terrible. And I saw an ad for voice app for adult voice actresses. And I'll tell them, [inaudible] go into different accents and stuff like that pretty easily. So I was like, Oh, that's perfect! But it that's not what it was. It was for phone sex. So I still took them up on the job because it meant I didn't have to travel. I could do it any time rather than having like a set schedule. And I thought I'd just do it until have a place to live and I'd be fine. And I was still making like four to five times more than my peers, so I couldn't justify leaving it. Then I fell in love with it because I got to connect with people and be somebody different. And when you're homeless, it's kind of nice to pretend you're someone different. So yeah, that sounds sad.

Melrose Michaels: No...Tt's funny you say that because there's a period in my life, like where we were between housing situations. We got, we got foreclosed on at one time and then also we got kicked out of our apartment at one time. So for me, I that's really relatable for me. Using kind of like hardship to kind of springboard into something new and exciting that can kind of totally transform your life. When you were in the phone sex industry, was there any kind of tipping point where, you know, yeah, you're making decent money and you know, your life's starting to come together to the way you want it. What made that decision? Like I think I can, you know, explore this more. Maybe do cams, maybe do something else. What, how did that happen?

Amberly Rothfield: Oh, sure. So I did do stipple in vanilla jobs throughout my career and adult. Every once in a while, you're just like, maybe I should go be a normal person and then you realize no you're quite happy working for yourself. So I remember getting my apartment, moving in, furnishing it for like the first time in my life, not sick. Cause when I first moved to the house to be on the floor no shame. And what after I felt like I was stable, I was like, I'm going to go get me a real job. And I didn't like it. I didn't like having a boss. I have this thing against not being able to, like, if I'm sick, I should be able to call out. Yeah, so I'm not this, I'll just say I'm not a pleasant person to work with that they loved me. I hated it. So I went back to doing phone sex and I was like, well, if I'm going to do this as a career, like, what else can I do? And that's when I found my first cam-site, it was "I'm Live" and I found clips for sale and I started streaming, but I said, well, I'll just stream while I'm on NiteFlirt . And then when I get a phone call, I'll just log out and log back on. Also not a good way to stream, to constantly just log on. Yes. What was I thinking?

Melrose Michaels: You know, learning curve.

Amberly Rothfield: Exactly. But that's also where, like I learned to be more myself rather than try to be just sex kitten that I will never be. I just like had the most chill streams everywhere. I'm just eating potato chips. And I was like, yeah, like I have some clips if you guys want to go buy them. That's cool. And like, I found that I could people, it was the first time in my life people like liked me for me. So that's off the topic, the question you asked, but yeah, so that's that was about two years in, but it made me want to explore more because I figured if I'm not built to have a nine to five, which no shame to those who have nine to five, someone has to do it. I'm thankful for everyone who does. But it just, it, it didn't make me happy. And I guess the adult industry made me happy. I needed to give everything the good college try before finding- to make sure I was where I wanted to be. That's also, long-winded

Melrose Michaels: No, that's exactly what I like, it's very, I want it to be a conversation. So feel free to go off in tangents or even ask me things. But when I first got into cam, I had done nothing before that as well. And then I moved into my apartment and was camming literally with my computer on a box and no furniture in the house. And just like, didn't log off till I made my rent. So it's very, we have a lot of similar stories in terms of kind of what you're saying, like being built to that nine to five, I think it's really important. And I always try to emphasis this on my podcast and just in conversations, but people don't take sex workers seriously as entrepreneurs. And that makes me so mad because there's so much that goes into the work that we do. And it's not just, you know, selling nudes online. There's so much marketing behind it, which is where me and you have so much in common. So in terms of how that evolved into this marketing and then into the books, tell me a little bit about that.

Amberly Rothfield: Sure. so I'm a lot different than the typical model because I'm bigger and race has- plays a factor in how you market yourself. So I could never market myself the way traditional models did. Also, my boobs are out there, but I've never gotten naked. Not against it. I just, I don't know why I never really went there. I just, I was kind of it's maybe it's that whole, once you go there, you can't go back. So I was making enough money. I was like, eh, I'll do it if I have to. I never had, now that those that decided to do it from the jump are wrong. This was just my path.

Melrose Michaels: Yeah, I hear you.

Amberly Rothfield: Thank God for those who do take their clothes off. But and I mean that but yeah, so I always had to market myself differently. And especially since I did mainly audio cause starting in, what was it? I started in 2005 technically. Well, the video started in 2007-ish videos, not what it was now. And even back then, it looked grainy. Like in that moment I was like, this looks like garbage. I don't want to put this out there and ask her it. And I just flipped back to audio. So I, and I did do some video stuff, but I do mainly audio. So anyways, all that to say, because I made stuff that's so diametrically different than everybody else. I had to find different paths in order to put it out there. And it meant that I didn't get to go to StripperWeb or AmberCutie forums to see how other people were marketing.

I started following the past of pod early podcast, the ones that we like made fun of where we're like, what are you doing? No, one's going to listen to your podcast. Yeah. I started following the path of what they're doing. Cause I was like, well, if they're doing audio, I should be doing audio are, should be following their marketing strategies. I followed the paths of early SoundCloud people and people on YouTube that were doing music. Okay, well I'm not doing music, but how are they getting their stuff out and internet radio? And I actually found a lot of places. For example, anybody listening on Apple? Well, they just recently split Apple iTunes with podcasts and music, but really on the podcast side, you can say whatever the hell you want, you can take your videos. If you're a video creator and put your little trailers, just the audio portion up on there.


Anchor.FM is a great way to do that. So yeah, anyhoo that's I started doing that and I found because there was no competition, I was able to rank higher, get more traffic, get more people finding me and really those audiences, because they there's very little porn in those areas where like, wait, what someone's here? This is great. And similar with Amazon. So I write erotica and I also write- I also write books about teaching neurodivergent people and, and children and whatnot too- under a real name. But I found that putting my content that is about the different niches that I cater to on Amazon, because in the Kindle version, you can actually put links and stuff. I was able to link back to my websites and I was able to get traffic. And again, places where people weren't as competitive. So my whole marketing strategy has always been figure out where people are not and go there because I can't compete with you over here. But if I'm over here, then I can.

Melrose Michaels: I think a lot of models don't consider the marketing strategy when it, especially when you are different or outside of the typical nature or outside the vanilla, the main mainstream porn, white girls, skinny white girl, because that's what it is. So when you really look at, okay, how can I do this? And this is more important now than ever to somehow find a way to market your adult alternative content in a mainstream way, just because, you know, the lines are getting more blurry as this industry is growing, especially right now with the whole OnlyFans trend and all these like mainstream influencers hopping on to fan sites. Like it's very, it's very important also to cause our we're constantly discriminated against. So if your social media goes down and now no one can find your content, your whole business is put on pause or in ruin.

So I think it's important that you can talk about that and teach that even to models coming up because there's so many people getting in the space right now due to COVID and all of these things. I think it's really important that models know there's a huge variety of ways to market. There's a huge variety of niches to even play in and kind of, you know, see if that's your thing or explore. So I think it's important. I think what you've done within the industry, especially in marketing terms has made a huge difference. I know I found you on Twitter, marketing your book, the phone sex book, how to make $10,000 a month doing phone sex. So I wanted to talk about that, cause that's actually how I came across you before I met you at Exotica. So what, you know, paved the way for that book, because that was super exciting for me.

Amberly Rothfield: Yeah. that book was an accident.

Melrose Michaels: Really?

Amberly Rothfield: Though. It really was. And this is going to sound like I'm bragging, but I, I don't, I still can't believe it. I was number one on a site called NiteFlirt for five years. And it was before they brought back in featuring, so you couldn't, you didn't pay for your placement. It's, it's one of the few sites where you can pay for your placement now. But it was before you could pay for your placement. And I just day in, day out, I was number one basically until I started having kids. And then I took a whole bunch of time off. And I started getting models asking me, how are you always up there? What are you doing? And I've always been very like transparent. There's like next to nothing. I hold back and they were shocked by the answers. I would give them, they'd be like, wow, you just kind of gave me the farm. And I'm like, you're welcome. So but I would get the same questions over and over and over again, which I don't mind. I know it's going to happen, but I started saving the question and then the answer in Evernote and I would just copy and paste it. Cause I'm lazy.

Melrose Michaels: Well, yeah, time is money


Amberly Rothfield: Exactly it after like like a year or two, I looked through it and it was 250 pages. So I was like, I should probably format this. And then just put it out on the internet and I put it out for free. Cause I didn't think anyone was going to like listen to it or read it or whatever, like a couple of people on NiteFlirt. Awesome. So I put her on the AmberCutie in the StripperWeb forums. Cause even though I say like, I couldn't follow their marketing stuff it's because I was so niche, they're still great forms to be on. So I put it there and like overnight I had close to 10,000 downloads and I had so many people in the DMS is that, sorry, I wake up to like five bazillion emails. I was so upset. Like not upset bad, but like being have to delete all of these.

So like people in the - and I wouldn't check the thread cause I was like, how did this thread blow up like this? And I had all these models saying, you should put it on Amazon. I want to buy this. And I'm like, you just got a free, yeah. Okay, fine. So I went to Fiverr and I got the ugliest cover you've ever seen created. I just paid five bucks, said do what you want, dude. Here's a picture of me. Cool. And put it up on Amazon. And it kept selling like, like almost hundreds and hundreds of copies a day. It has slowed down since then. Thank goodness. But it is the highest reviewed marketing book in our, about our industry out there. I don't know how that happened, but it's a thing, but it's, it's still free. I do still give out free digital copies, but it still sells like insanely well, which blows my mind. So it was a complete accident. I didn't think anybody would ever read it.

Melrose Michaels: That's amazing. And I'm sure obviously you provide a ton of value. That's why I did so well. So I'm not surprised that that's what happened. Okay. So then after the success of that book, did that kind of make you start to think like, okay, there's obviously a need for education. There's a need for these kinds of books to be out there in our community or

Amberly Rothfield: I, I, I again went into more accidents kind of, I, the whole thing with marketing for porn models. I haven't like, I have not had a single thing that I've done that I thought, let me just do this. It's always something where someone's like, you should do this. And I'm like, okay, sure. And I do it, and it works. So people read that and then they had follow up questions and I was answering all those. And then I remember one day about three or four months after it was released, a model came to me and she's like, I'll pay you to sit down with you for an hour. And I was like, okay. And she's like, how much? And I'm like I don't know, how much do you want to pay me? And she's like 50 bucks. And I was like, cool. Yeah. So I started doing consultations with her. Then she went and told other people and soon I had to create a Calendly. And then I create, yeah, it all was an accident.

Melrose Michaels: Well, it's funny too. Cause I always feel like, cause models have come to me for advice randomly at times, but models are always so forward. Like I'll pay you for your time. Like, they're very respectful because they know our time is our business, which is not the case for like the average person. Like I have mainstream like vanilla nine to five friends who are like, Hey, I was thinking not OnlyFans, can you like, come visit me this weekend, go over with me. I'm like, Oh, this is my business. Like, it was a different thing.


Amberly Rothfield: Right. Exactly.


Melrose Michaels: Models are always so like, yeah, I'll pay you for your time. You know, we could do a Skype or zoom or something. It's so funny.

Amberly Rothfield: No, it's true. I, I work with YouTubers and streamers as well, and Twitch streamers and no, everyone that wants to inquire about services. They're just like, yeah. Like I just, can you look at my YouTube channel and tell me what, like I should be doing. I'm like, you want to book a consultation? Nooo..

Melrose Michaels: You're not getting the time from anything because YouTube is almost, it's very similar to what we do. So you'd think that that would kind of transfer over. Huh?

Amberly Rothfield: You would think, but no, I think it's because we're hyper aware like YouTube, like what they do is free. Well they're making free content, then they get paid for it in views. So they don't. Yeah. Maybe I don't know. And same with Twitch streamers. Like they're playing a game for free and they're hoping someone subscribes to their personality. So I guess they don't see it, whereas us we're like, okay, so I'm going to stream for this amount of hours. I need to make this amount of money. Like I guess his it's more personal in order to get to the payout, I don't know. 

Melrose Michaels: Yeah. And also we are the, like the subject of the stream, whereas them it's the game. It's the content. It's not themselves typically.

Amberly Rothfield: Yeah. They're like we don't have the help in the stream, which even the people that do IRL stuff like you're walking around or you can go, we are, we are naked quite literally. We're the ones that are right there. That we have to ask to be more of a personal connection. Whereas you can bring in other things to create that connection. And in Twitch streams and whatnot, anyhoo, that's me ranting about Twitch streamers.

Melrose Michaels: That makes sense though. Do you ever feel, cause I kind of feel like that sometimes too, because people ask me all the time, like how come you don't make boy-girl content? And that's just one thing that I've never crossed that boundary because if you never undo it, like you said, and also I kind of feel like when there's something for me to always go to, cause I haven't done it yet.

Amberly Rothfield: Same! One day I might get naked.


Melrose Michaels: Yeah! Maybe, who knows?! Keep watching! 

(both laughing)

Melrose Michaels: It's like, it's kind of, because I get asked that question so often even from other models, but actually I don't see anything wrong with it. I fully support people who do. I'm married, I could easily do that with my husband. He'd be completely open for it, but it's just something I kind of put off because I've done well enough for, you know, my standard of living or my businesses, whatever, without having to do it. So I don't see a need. And I feel like kind of that's how you look at it. But do you ever feel strange? Because I know, I feel strange when people either label me as pornstar or labeled me as an, that I'm porn. Even though I do content with other women, I still don't feel like I'm in that like, I'm undeserving. I feel undeserving of that title. Do you..?


Amberly Rothfield: I think the definition of pornstar has greatly morphed. Like when I started, it was people like Tori Black who went on professional sets, hair, makeup, the nines, and even, even some of the people who only did like girl, girl, girl stuff, or even just solo stuff were still considered porn stars. So as long as they did like a prolific amount of it, but over time that definition of porn, the definition of porn itself has shifted. Therefore the definition of pornstar has shifted. If you ask me, like we say, this person, this is a good example, Philip De Franco is the star, the Philip De Franco Show. I - actually even - we call it the Philip de Franco Show prior to, you know, the 2000's, prior to when YouTube became really, really ubiquitous across the globe. We never would have said somebody with an internet (show), like yeah, exactly. We'd never would have called that a show. So I think just as that definition of like what an actual Star.. like in mainstream has shifted and what shows have shifted. I think the term porn is shifted. Therefore the term "porn star" shifts, I would say you're absolutely a Star. You're a well-known, well-established person. You're making a career in here. You're.. you're no less a.. if you're a SoundCloud rapper, you're no less of a rapper than somebody who got on a label, a record label.


(both laughing) 

Melrose Michaels: I so want to be a SoundCloud rapper in another life.


Amberly Rothfield: I have no wait, do you have bars? Can you drop them bars?


Melrose Michaels: Currently? No, but openly disappointing everyone listening.

(both laughing)

Melrose Michaels: No, but yeah, I think you're right. I feel like it's kind of become such a spectrum because when I started in 2011, I looked at porn stars. Like, you know, they're going to a set, they're at a set with producers and it's a whole thing and it's like a 14 hour day something crazy. And so like, I would always shy to like, I'm a cam girl. It's a different thing. We don't, we don't mix those niches back then, but now it's such a blurred line, especially with the fan sites launching. It's definitely become..lucrative.


Amberly Rothfield: I, I changed my, my mind, not actually what changed my mind on it was when I found that some cam girls make more money than porn stars. (oh yeah, most of them) So yeah. So, so to tell this person who has a hundred, 200,000 followers and really good engagement that they're not a Star, to me is actually more dismissive of what they've done. Not, not that money defines you necessarily, but if that I, say, that person wants to say they're a pornstar they're a porn star. But to me, the better, the more we all come together under, I don't care what the term is. We could call ourselves squiggly dues, but we all, the more we come together into one term, that means that there's more of us, which means we can go fight stuff. Like I don't know, SESTA FOSTA. (Yeah, Yeah, that's a whole thing) It's, it's about unification. So if like people want to call themselves a pornstar, I think they should. But I would say if you feel like you are undeserving, no, you are dope. Sorry. I hit my mic all the time. I feel like if you feel like you're undeserved, you are definitely deserving because like what, what, what is a Star much anymore? If you're a Star on the internet?

Melrose Michaels: Yeah. I'm an internet person. I don't know. I think too, because like how you mentioned too, cam girls would out-earn most pornstars, pornstars were getting paid per scene and it was a very different experience than what like webcam was. So that, that definitely puts perspective on it and too - Even when it comes to terms like terminology, like there's such a, a mixed emotion when it comes to the term sex-work, like some camgirls don't want to be called sex workers, and it's his whole thing and I get it and whatever you want to define yourself as legal wise, like that's up to you personally, as long as people respect that, that's, that's the end of that story. So, it's interesting though, because to watch how things have evolved and changed has been really cool. In terms of your books. Cause I want to talk about this more. Can you let us know what are the other books that you've covered in the sex workspace or the community?


Amberly Rothfield: Sure, the recent, most recent one, which was somehow like, it hit the hit best pre-release, then best-sellers list, which is, 90 Days and Paid where, the first book, a lot of people said, like, I just don't know where -you gave me a lot to do, but I don't know exactly where I am to start. So I decided to make a 90 day, cause it takes 90 days to develop habits. So every day you get a new thing to do, and it adds on to what the previous days were. So, including rest, because that's something that I don't do.


Melrose Michaels: Yeah.


Amberly Rothfield: But, but yeah, so every day is like a, like a new little task and it starts with a quote from a sex worker. I solicited on Twitter a bunch of quotes, like, like what's the stuff that gets you motivated, whatnot. And I added that in there. So, and along with the person's Twitter handle, so you can go find them. But yeah, so 90 Days and Paid, and then there's also - Financial Domination: Online Mistresses Tales. But that one's about to be re-released we never actually made the physical copy of it because the first digital copy got screwed up when it was uploading. And then it got stuck, but Amazon figured out how to fix it (nice). So I'm going to be re-releasing it with even more content soon.


Melrose Michaels: Awesome. Okay. So when it comes to 90 Days and Paid, because they're so, that's like a perfect release for this time in society with so many people coming into the space, which is really, I mean, you couldn't have timed that better. That's awesome.


Amberly Rothfield: It was already in the works. I felt like, I was like, do I drop it? People are gonna think I did this on purpose.


Melrose Michaels: No it's not, no.. it's so hard.. you feel torn on that too, because it's like, I don't want to profit off the pandemic, but there's so many people home on the computer right now. It's like, ah, I hear ya. But have you, what has the feedback been on 90 Days and Paid? What is like, what are models saying? What, what were some things that really stuck with you that girls have said or guys have said?


Amberly Rothfield: It, it has been.. Nope. Nope. I said you were going to get me to cry today. This.. Michael's..dammit. It's been really good. I didn't think it would be. I thought it would be like basically the sophomore book that we put out and it would just know (laughs) we, people models keep telling me, like, they're like, it's made me be structured. Like I wake up every day thinking I have to get, and it's just one task a day. And then I explain not just like how to do it, but why you're doing it and how this is going to help you. So they tell me, they're like, yeah, it's nice to have A: the WHY I need to get it done. But also what I can expect, realistic expectations of how this is gonna help me in the future. For example, I'm big on knowing your business numbers.

Amberly Rothfield: I know my customer attrition rates. I know how many customers I lose every month. I also know how many are gonna return back to me. So I help them figure out what those rates are and how to apply it to your business so that, you know, if you're used to having a hundred - if it takes a hundred OnlyFans or fans, period on any site to keep you going, and you know, you're going to lose 20, okay, well go out and get 30 because then you're going to be growing. And then like, how do you develop a plan to get those 30? Cause it's nice to tell you, you need 30, but where are they going to come from? So yeah, just the model's telling me that it's allowed them to apply structure. It's not just, here's a bunch of information of what you could be doing, but rather here's the information and here's how to do it.. it's bite-sized, and it doesn't feel like - cause marketing and learning marketing business skills, you know this all too well. It's, it's a lot. And it, yeah, it's a new language really. And it, it, it can make it feel like it's impossible to learn it. Yeah, I would say, but, but if you do it in bite-size chunks, it's easier to digest and actually apply to your daily routine to where you're not even thinking about it. You're just going through the motions, which makes it easier to get it knocked out. So yeah, it's been great feedback.

Melrose Michaels: That's amazing. When you say like marketing has its own language, that's completely true and it could not be more accurate. But then on top of that, it's also always changing. Like when we first started, we didn't have Instagram the way people do now, or, you know, yeah. There's, Twitter was kind of always our safe space, but like the patreons of the world didn't exist. The FanCentro, the OnlyFans that wasn't a thing. In my early career, I launched a fan site when I was doing well, top 20 at MFC and my fan site tanked. Like it was good for one month and then nothing. So yeah. So it's also like market timing. So if you're not familiar or educated on business or marketing, and that aspect is like, okay, market timing for a fan site back then was super shitty. But now it's like all the rage and everyone's accepting of the idea and doesn't have that obstacle of having a subscription to overcome...


..Cause they're, they're open to the idea now. So I think having a business and marketing strategy, or even like, like your books to outline some of that stuff that isn't common knowledge to people, not well versed in marketing, that's going to help set up these, you know, sex work entrepreneurs to take their business more seriously and see real success, which is obviously what everyone wants at the end of the day, anyway. So that's, it's really exciting and it's powerful that you've done this in this space, because even though we're in a time where we are seeing a shift of sex work, being able to be mainstream, we see, you know, big stars in the industry, the Riley Reeds, Lana Rhodes also get like brand deals with fashion Nova and things like that, which is completely unheard of for girls like us. But now to introduce to the idea like, Oh, you guys can write books. Like you guys can do this. Like, I think that's really important because a lot of the models, especially girls like us, who've been in the industry a while might still have that in their head. Like, Oh, you can't do that. You're just, you're just in porn. Like you can't branch out. They're not going to accept you there. But I think times are changing. What do you think?

Amberly Rothfield: No, I think time 100%. I mean, even when cause I, I considered doing consulting ish seven years ago and I had models losing their minds on me. Like, no, you shouldn't do that. You're taking advantage of sex workers, but I've always thought if you're a real industry, then there has to be like educators and whatnot. And now we're getting where we're seeing more educators, you know, we've got Justine Cross, we have Lola Defina. We have princess Collie, so on, so forth more and more educators are coming forward and saying, and I 100% believe that we get into I call it dinosaur mentality and this is me yelling at myself, not at anybody else. There's a lot of I'm like, you can't do that. You're not supposed to do that. And I have to stop myself and think, okay, but it is 2020. Can we do this now? Is this something I couldn't do three years ago versus this is something we can do now. And yeah, I, I, 100% when you said, I think it's that a lot of us stop ourselves. We don't think, yeah, we can write books. I had someone that was surprised. They were like, you were in business insider, business insider writes about porn stars? I'm like, yeah, they do betcha, Time Magazine does too.


Melrose Michaels: Rollingstone Forbes.


Amberly Rothfield: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Just because we do dirty work doesn't mean we can't be in it. I mean, Lance Hart was in GQ.


Melrose Michaels: Yeah. That's amazing.


Amberly Rothfield: Yeah. Like if you want it, you can go for it. I mean, Cardi B, Cardi B was a stripper, Yeah. (Channing Tatum) What's that?


Melrose Michaels: Channing Tatum also was a stripper


Amberly Rothfield: What? Oh yeah, that's right.

Magic Mike! That's right, I forgot. I forget about that one. I was like, wait what?


Melrose Michaels: No. In real life before magic Mike Mike, he did like a stripping stunt, like in his real-life before he ever became an actor. 


Amberly Rothfield: Yeah. Was it? I thought, wasn't Magic Mike, like based off of his..(stripping)


Melrose Michaels: Oh, I dunno. Maybe. I dunno.


Amberly Rothfield: I think It was, I'm probably wrong and it's okay (laughter) 


Melrose Michaels: Yeah. (Shoutout) Channing Tatum if you're listening (laughter)


Amberly Rothfield: There used to be the stigma that like once you do porn of any kind. There's no going back, but honestly, yeah. Actually the truth is there is no going back, but it doesn't, it's the same as being any other occupation and then going to do something else you can. Absolutely. I know sex workers who speak at Yale and at Harvard, they pay really well for that, by the way.


Melrose Michaels: That's amazing. New goals. I want to, I want to get a Ted Talk one day. That's also my giant goal, I would love to do a Ted Talk.


Amberly Rothfield: I kind of, I kind of want to organize one. I've gone to enough Ted talks where I technically qualify to like organize what.. I'd love to do. Like Ted.. TEDx.


Melrose Michaels: Yeah. Ted Sex! 


Amberly Rothfield: Yes! Ted Sex! Let's make it happen.


Melrose Michaels:Marketing skills are turning Ted X, X, X, our own branch.

Amberly Rothfield: I bet they'd be willing to do it. They allow sex workers to talk on Ted. Yeah.

Melrose Michaels: Yeah. That'd be something really cool that I hope gets put together because I feel like we're not given a whole lot of platform to be heard. We're all more given platform to be seen because that's the nature of our business. So, and that's kind of what sprung the whole podcast, to be honest, it was like, I want people to hear what I have to say and not necessarily see me and.. then the visual as well. But I - it was a nice place to, to voice my opinions and my thoughts and get good feedback and also build a female audience. Cause I didn't really have that before. I feel like..


Amberly Rothfield: It's cool. It's cool. When I started getting a few more of a sex worker audience and whatnot, I, it was weird cause like I used to be this person. So I do mainly Fem Dom type stuff. And so for years people thought I was actually really mean and cause like I was playing a character, meanwhile, like I live in Bumblefuck, nowhere. And I knit like, and I'm terrified to even talk to the mail carrier. Like I'm so mousy in real life. It's so draining, like to, yeah. Like people are like, Oh you're so good at speaking. No, you don't understand. Like I will go to sleep for four hours and for anxiety and nervousness, it's weird. But anywho people thought I was really, really mean, but then I like came out, being myself and I showed like we, we raise meat rabbits. And I showed myself playing with baby rabbits all day. People are like, wow, I didn't think you were like that. And I was like..


Melrose Michaels: Yeah..this is me out of character

(both laughing)


Amberly Rothfield: Hi, I'm a person.


Melrose Michaels: That's true. That's interesting that you said that I, when I kind of dipped my toes in the Fem Dom world for a little bit, but I got, I got a great reaction from fans, bad reaction from other Fem Dom models. Cause it's a very tight-knit community. And I like, I think there was a, it was very trendy at the time to like dip your toe in Fem Dom. And the girls were like, you know, you're not a real Fem Dom. Like you don't know what you're doing this takes years of like work and research, which to their credit, I'm sure it does. And I didn't even stick with it that long. I kind of felt like, okay, I'm an outsider. I'm always going to be an outsider to step back. But I really liked that form of content, especially as a woman, because it's like, you don't get to be mean. Like society makes you as a woman, be polite and be like, you know, appeasing and be small almost. So to like be strong and empowered. It's such a cool feeling. It was really, yeah..


Amberly Rothfield: Yeah! It's really complete opposite of who I really am. But that's why I think that why I like it, that, that hurts my heart. That's one thing I never liked. I am I'm the redheaded stepchild, black sheep of the Fem Dom community. I've been told many times I do everything wrong. (laughter)


Melrose Michaels: If you got fans coming back, what does it matter?


Amberly Rothfield: Pretty much like I, I learned to very quickly- to validate myself off of my fans. Not off of - but that hurts my heart. When I see people say that because why are you pigeonholing what fem Dom is like, I remember when like some of the first really well-known fem dom started like doing nudity. People were like, "Oh my God, I can't believe you're getting naked, real Fem Dom doesn't get naked". I don't know why they had a Southern accent, but they do.

(both laughing)


Melrose Michaels: That was, that was one of the comments I got was like, well, you can't be a real Fem Dom cause they can just go buy your nude porn online. I was like, so it's different, it's a different audience. Like, why can't I cater to both? It is, it's sad because the community can be cliquey like that. But I wanted to be a part of that change and where I'm at now with my career and the things I'm seeing. It's, it's not as bad as it used to be in my opinion. I think people will become way more open and way more caring of other members in our community. Cause we've, we're all we have really like the day.


Amberly Rothfield: Yeah! Like I like to tell people there's some people I disagree with, but I've got to love you for it. If for no other reason, you're one of us.

Melrose Michaels: Yeah, that's true.


Amberly Rothfield: We have to be together. And again, I don't believe that that we should, I believe everything that we're doing is art. And I can't shame your art just cause I don't get it. I don't get foot fetish. I'm sorry. I think feet are pretty stink'n gross. I will never look at a foot fetish slip and be like, that was hot. But if you do foot fetish stuff like fucking power to you! I don't understand being like to be like, that's not the way you should be. I do blackmail clips.. like blackmail fantasy, nothing illegal. I don't look good in orange. No one's going to jail, but I'm not going to look at someone who does blackmail fantasy stuff and be like, you, you doing it wrong! I might say, that's gonna send you to jail. Let's not. (careful, it's a different thing). Let me give you an early referral to swap behind bars on that one. That'll be the worst that I'll say to someone I'm not going to, (it's also) I never got the judgy thing. Oh, sorry go ahead.

Melrose Michaels: It's also important to like keep each other safe, which is a big, especially with like, new legislation coming down the line SESTA FOSTA. So it's like, okay, you girls doing date raffles. Like gotta be careful now. Like stuff like that, it's changing, it's changing what we can do within our careers. So I think it's important to be aware. And like you said, it is art and arts' very opinion based kind of thing. So that kind of just is what it is. But this is really good. I'm really glad that you made time to come on and talk to me and my listeners about this. Is there anything you would like to promote before we wrap this up?


Amberly Rothfield: No, no, no. It's honestly, it's been a pleasure. I, I adore you, you are one of the most bubbliest, true, sweetest people and marketing genius (thank you) out there that I've known. And you, you really, you.. it's - after going through your stuff - because I am a weirdo. I was like, no wonder like she's, she's successful. Shes.. you're, unlike me. Everything you do is not an accident. So major cuddos!


Melrose Michaels: Thank you! I appreciate that. I wish I had successful accidents, but no they're usually painful, like falling downstairs or something. (laughter) Where can people follow you? Your Twitter, your Instagram, all of that.


Amberly Rothfield: Sure. so my Twitter is Amberly - A M B E R L Y. PSO like phone sex operator. I didn't think that through. And then my Instagram is @AmberlyOwnsYou. I would also change that, but we're kind of stuck with it now. Yeah. And then is the website.


Melrose Michaels: All right love. It was so good talking to you and I can't wait to see what you come out with next. I am thrilled!


Amberly Rothfield: Thank you, I appreciate you

Melrose Michaels: I'll talk to you soon.


Melrose Michaels: I am super grateful for Amberly for coming on today's episode. Her story has so many parallels to my own, and we've both been able to find unique successes within our own lanes. She's such a power player in our community and is leading the way for so many models to expand their careers outside the box that society has dubbed worthy of us. I can't wait to see what she writes next and what models will thank her from award sieges in the future, you are forging paths for so many people Amberly, even if by accident. I'm Melrose Michaels, and this has been season three, episode nine of the SeenAndNotHeard Podcast.


Huge thank you this week to the educators in our community, not only today's guest, Amberly Rothfield, but also Justine Cross, Princess Kelly, and Lola Davina. Our community needs more educators.


And what you are doing is thankless work. Please know that I see you and I am grateful for what you have done as it is what moves our industry forward.


Melrose Michaels: Want to be an individual sponsor of the podcast. All you have to do is go to anchor.FM/Melrose and click support the podcast to donate whatever amount per month to help fund more episodes like today's.


Next week on the SeenAndNotHeard Podcast I sit down with Jessie Sage to talk about all things, phone sex in even more depth. I consider the phone sex niche of our industry one of the most intimate that there is as voice builds such an incredible connection that just can't be achieved through other mediums. But you and I both know that, now don't we.

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